No Sign-And-Forward Petitions, Please!

[jrubinstein at igc.org]

RE: VERMONT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE PETITION

Regardless of how I might feel about the issue, I don't
believe it is topical to community development _banking_.
Community development, maybe, but banking, no.

I also think that sign-and-forward petitions should NEVER be
used on the Internet, and certainly not on the Community
Development Banking list, for many reasons.

1. If you agree with the petition but don't want to pass it to
anyone else, you have no way of signing.

2. If you do sign and forward, your signature is lost unless an
unbroken chain of people sign and forward until the next
multiple of 25 or 50 or whatever.

3. One person's signature may appear on many copies of the petition.

4. There's no evidence that they make any difference, and they
give people a false sense of "having done something." If you
care about an issue, write your own letter!

5. This sign-and-forward petition suffers from a defect common to most:

I t d o e s n ' t h a v e a d a t e o n i t .

So we have no way of knowing if the issue is still relevant,
or if the designated recipients of the petitions are still
in business.

And in all probability, even if the issue is still relevant,
the petition will continue to circulate long after.

Sign-and-forward petitions are really viruses that propagate
for years after the original issue is moot, because of
unthinking goodwill of internet users. Wash your hands of them!


At 03:39 PM 2/4/00 -0500, john_noble@Harvard.Edu wrote:
>
>
>
>
>-- Forwarded by John Noble/FS/KSG on 02/04/2000 03:39 PM --
>
>
>jfmatias@mail.com on 02/04/2000 12:38:54 PM
>
>To: BTASHIDELE@aol.com, RichGris@aol.com, alismith@ziplink.net,
> richard.herstek@libertysurf.fr, DCCHICK@prodigy.net, Wmtaylor@aol.com,
> fwalley@walleyinsurance.com, glarson@lausd.k12.ca.us,
> gaypiper@mindspring.com, brigandinewday@email.msn.com,
Erschatz@aol.com,
> aileen@morgan.ucs.mun.ca, cnorris@chapa.org, fluffyit@aol.com,
> mmalamut@world.std.com, burt_william@hotmail.com, tomkelly@dc.net,
> ADavies@hubdata.com, Dbmktng@aol.com, GregJ10588@aol.com,
> vanantwerp@mail.com, leecar@idt.net, LCF02139@aol.com,
> alismith@ziplink.net, rkklee@mit.edu, kklett@lucent.com,
> georgeindc4now@yahoo.com, Atchbaby@aol.com, alle2@earthlink.net,
> renrentals@cyburban.com, joulesny@usa.net, John Noble/FS/KSG@KSG
>cc:
>Subject: RE: VERMONT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE PETITION
>
>
>
>Friends:
>
>Please read the following legislative development on gay rights and the
>request for your support.
>
>Regards, Joaquin
>
>>> Subject:
>>> Legal matters.
>>> Date:
>>> Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:45:59 -0700
h>>> From:
>>> Christiane S Heyde <christiane_heyde@juno.com>
>>>
>Vermont needs help...
>>>
>>> As you may know, the Supreme Court of Vermont recently
>>> ruled that
>>> committed homosexual relationships should have the same
>>> rights and
>>> privileges afforded to married straight couples. There are
>>> over 1,000
>>>
>>> rights that come with marriage which are currently denied
>>> to gay
>>> couples including hospital visitation/medical decisions,
>>> rights of
>>> survivorship, filing joint tax returns, etc. etc.
>>> >>
>>> This is a VERY important first step towards equality in
>>> America.
>>> However, the Governor's office of Vermont has been
>>> BOMBARDED with phone
>>> calls
>>> by anti-gay individuals opposing the recent decision --
>>> primarily fueled
>>>
>>> by the "Doctor" Laura radio program which gave out the
>>> phone number.
>>>
>>> I called the Governor's office, and spoke to the secretary,
>>> who was
>>> VERY nice but said that I was one of only a HANDFUL of
>>> callers who
>>> SUPPORT
>>> this huge step towards equal rights.
>>> >>
>>> Please add your name to the following list.
>>>
>>> COPY this into a new e-mail, and send it to your friends.
>>> When the list reaches 25 people, please send it to
>>> ltgov@leg.state.vt.us The 25th person can then start a list
>>> anew,
>>> to pass along to others as well.
>>>
>>> Dear Lieutenant Governor - Douglas A. Racine,
>>>
>>> We the undersigned deeply support your move to have
>>> equal rights for
>>> same sex partners. You have taken a historical step towards
>>> mending
>>> the many fractures that divide our society. The following
>>> list is
>>> comprised of people from all walks of life, from straight
>>> to gay.
>>>
>>> Thank you for your continued support and your forward
>>> thinking
>>> politics.
>>>
>>> 1) Christiane Heyde, Tucson, AZ
>>> 2) Melva Ballesteros, Tucson, AZ
>>> 3) Susan Lemmon, Vail AZ
>> 4) Kitty Aspen All, Silver City, NM
>>> 5) Ashlee Fischer, Silver City, NM
>6) Alison Smith Hitesman, Waltham, MA
>7) Joaquin Matias, Newark, NJ
>8) John Noble, Cambridge, MA



This post transferred from the cdb-l mailing list

[nwass at together.net]

I agree with Joel Rubinstein on forwarding petitions...

But since John Noble brought the issue up and I happen to be someone who
actually lives in Vermont, knows how politics works here and could be affected
by the legislative decision, I am forwarding my response to my colleagues who
have also forwarded the petition...

> I am sending the same response to you that I sent to Erhard earlier this week...
>
> You know how Vermont legislative politics works better than to be doing this!!
>
> Sending long lists of names of people who took ten seconds out of their day to
> add something to an e-mail does not make lagislation happen. First, the reality
>
> is that politicians in Vermont listen to their neighbors more than they listen
> to out-of-staters - If you don't live (and vote) here, contact your sympathetic
> friends who do. If you live here, are 18 or older and don't vote -
> either register to vote, get to the polls or stop your complaining! Second, If
> you care about this issue and live (and vote) in Vermont, it is critical for you
>
> to let your representatives and Senators and Governor Dean know your thoughts.
> Third, our Lieutenant Governor Doug Racine has been a strong proponent of gay
> rights and an early advocate for gay marriage. He needs letters thanking him
> for
> his stance, not pettitions clogging up his e-mail. Fourth, write letters to
> the editor and keep contacting your legislators. Change is not going to happen
> by signing an e-mail petition - it requires face-to-face conversations with our
> neighbors and the people we have elected to study the issues, think about the
> implications and make the hard decisions (as opposed to seeing which way the
> wind is blowing or polls are flying...)
>
> This is an important issue that is being discussed in coffee shops, work sites
> and homes throughout the state and across the country. The discussion is
> raising all kinds of questions and contradictions about love, marriage,
> commitment, religion, property, inheritance, health care and all the things that
>
> come up when one starts to talk about love and money and people commit to do
> something in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, etc. The process
> by which gay marriage is being debated is also making people question what they
> want and expect from their government and their elected representatives
> particularly in regards to the role of each branch of government, separation of
> church and state and decision-making by polls and referendum. As we all know,
> the rights of any minority should NEVER be decided by popular referendum.
> Representative small-d democracy is a precious thing, but only if it is
> exercised with the responsibility it requires.
>
> I encourage you to pass this on to the same list of folks you sent the petition
> to...
>
> Keep at it,
> Nancy Wasserman
> Montpelier, VT
>
Joel Rubinstein wrote:

> RE: VERMONT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE PETITION
>
> Regardless of how I might feel about the issue, I don't
> believe it is topical to community development _banking_.
> Community development, maybe, but banking, no.
>
> I also think that sign-and-forward petitions should NEVER be
> used on the Internet, and certainly not on the Community
> Development Banking list, for many reasons.
>
> 1. If you agree with the petition but don't want to pass it to
> anyone else, you have no way of signing.
>
> 2. If you do sign and forward, your signature is lost unless an
> unbroken chain of people sign and forward until the next
> multiple of 25 or 50 or whatever.
>
> 3. One person's signature may appear on many copies of the petition.
>
> 4. There's no evidence that they make any difference, and they
> give people a false sense of "having done something." If you
> care about an issue, write your own letter!
>
> 5. This sign-and-forward petition suffers from a defect common to most:
>
> I t d o e s n ' t h a v e a d a t e o n i t .
>
> So we have no way of knowing if the issue is still relevant,
> or if the designated recipients of the petitions are still
> in business.
>
> And in all probability, even if the issue is still relevant,
> the petition will continue to circulate long after.
>
> Sign-and-forward petitions are really viruses that propagate
> for years after the original issue is moot, because of
> unthinking goodwill of internet users. Wash your hands of them!
>
> At 03:39 PM 2/4/00 -0500, john_noble@Harvard.Edu wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-- Forwarded by John Noble/FS/KSG on 02/04/2000 03:39 PM --
> >
> >
> >jfmatias@mail.com on 02/04/2000 12:38:54 PM
> >
> >To: BTASHIDELE@aol.com, RichGris@aol.com, alismith@ziplink.net,
> > richard.herstek@libertysurf.fr, DCCHICK@prodigy.net, Wmtaylor@aol.com,
> > fwalley@walleyinsurance.com, glarson@lausd.k12.ca.us,
> > gaypiper@mindspring.com, brigandinewday@email.msn.com,
> Erschatz@aol.com,
> > aileen@morgan.ucs.mun.ca, cnorris@chapa.org, fluffyit@aol.com,
> > mmalamut@world.std.com, burt_william@hotmail.com, tomkelly@dc.net,
> > ADavies@hubdata.com, Dbmktng@aol.com, GregJ10588@aol.com,
> > vanantwerp@mail.com, leecar@idt.net, LCF02139@aol.com,
> > alismith@ziplink.net, rkklee@mit.edu, kklett@lucent.com,
> > georgeindc4now@yahoo.com, Atchbaby@aol.com, alle2@earthlink.net,
> > renrentals@cyburban.com, joulesny@usa.net, John Noble/FS/KSG@KSG
> >cc:
> >Subject: RE: VERMONT SAME-SEX MARRIAGE PETITION
> >
> >
> >
> >Friends:
> >
> >Please read the following legislative development on gay rights and the
> >request for your support.
> >
> >Regards, Joaquin
> >
> >>> Subject:
> >>> Legal matters.
> >>> Date:
> >>> Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:45:59 -0700
> h>>> From:
> >>> Christiane S Heyde <christiane_heyde@juno.com>
> >>>
> >Vermont needs help...
> >>>
> >>> As you may know, the Supreme Court of Vermont recently
> >>> ruled that
> >>> committed homosexual relationships should have the same
> >>> rights and
> >>> privileges afforded to married straight couples. There are
> >>> over 1,000
> >>>
> >>> rights that come with marriage which are currently denied
> >>> to gay
> >>> couples including hospital visitation/medical decisions,
> >>> rights of
> >>> survivorship, filing joint tax returns, etc. etc.
> >>> >>
> >>> This is a VERY important first step towards equality in
> >>> America.
> >>> However, the Governor's office of Vermont has been
> >>> BOMBARDED with phone
> >>> calls
> >>> by anti-gay individuals opposing the recent decision --
> >>> primarily fueled
> >>>
> >>> by the "Doctor" Laura radio program which gave out the
> >>> phone number.
> >>>
> >>> I called the Governor's office, and spoke to the secretary,
> >>> who was
> >>> VERY nice but said that I was one of only a HANDFUL of
> >>> callers who
> >>> SUPPORT
> >>> this huge step towards equal rights.
> >>> >>
> >>> Please add your name to the following list.
> >>>
> >>> COPY this into a new e-mail, and send it to your friends.
> >>> When the list reaches 25 people, please send it to
> >>> ltgov@leg.state.vt.us The 25th person can then start a list
> >>> anew,
> >>> to pass along to others as well.
> >>>
> >>> Dear Lieutenant Governor - Douglas A. Racine,
> >>>
> >>> We the undersigned deeply support your move to have
> >>> equal rights for
> >>> same sex partners. You have taken a historical step towards
> >>> mending
> >>> the many fractures that divide our society. The following
> >>> list is
> >>> comprised of people from all walks of life, from straight
> >>> to gay.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for your continued support and your forward
> >>> thinking
> >>> politics.
> >>>
> >>> 1) Christiane Heyde, Tucson, AZ
> >>> 2) Melva Ballesteros, Tucson, AZ
> >>> 3) Susan Lemmon, Vail AZ
> >> 4) Kitty Aspen All, Silver City, NM
> >>> 5) Ashlee Fischer, Silver City, NM
> >6) Alison Smith Hitesman, Waltham, MA
> >7) Joaquin Matias, Newark, NJ
> >8) John Noble, Cambridge, MA



This post transferred from the cdb-l mailing list